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hey brewers in this video we're going to run through how to make amazing lager by using some sound water chemistry let's get brewing hey everybody hendo here from rockstar
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brewer uh i'm with ryan fullerton um and today we're talking about lager and how to make an awesome one um and basically not follow the ride heights kabot and do it in a way that what sort of
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modern brewers do and troubleshoot it and that sort of thing so lager's a really um uh interesting style of beer and i really enjoy making them and the reason why i enjoy making them is that they are a style of beer that requires you to be
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very attentive and you've really got to watch every part of the process because because you've got such a clean fresh crispy boys style of beer there's really nowhere to hide it'll it'll show all your faults straight away so
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how you doing ryan yeah doing well mate cheers it's good um so you've had a crack at making a lager and it hasn't quite turned out the way in which you would like for it to work out yeah
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um before you tell me what's in it tell me about your perception of it at the moment what what was it look like well show us what it looks like i think you got it in there yeah well it looks like that it's um still a little bit hazy because it's you know
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gelatin in the keg and uh yeah it's still pouring some of the goo but um it's yeah it's just got this this real um like it's got a good sort of body to it but the problem is yeah it's just it's
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bland it doesn't have a lot of bitterness um you know and despite a not a huge hop addition but you know i would have thought it well b smith reckons it's um about 15 ibu um which for for a beer with a final
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gravity of 1006 i thought that should be pretty pretty much enough to to get it through yeah and um yeah it just hasn't at all so okay so if i said to you that um
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if i said if i said that the beer without sort of i try not to suggest to people how their beers are smelling and tasting obviously we're not in the same room at the moment so it's a bit hard to tell but uh there's that but would you would you say that the beer is flabby
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labby um yeah likes that likes a bit of life and zing and yeah yeah it's just there's nothing that makes me really sort of want to go back and have another have another glass of it yeah
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which is not ideal so yeah yeah okay so um tell me uh what's in it so just give me an idea of sort of the malt and the hops that you've got in it right so the um i'm just going to alt tab back across um
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so the malt bill is 80 percent gladfield lager light okay um 10 carat pills and 10 like munich okay yep and that is it the gladfield
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carapils and gladfield oh yeah gladiator um yep okay so air it's a hundred percent glad field yep um malt oh actually no it's sorry it's barrett burst in munich
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um what sort of hops went into it uh hops were um pearl and a little bit of citra right at the end of the boil okay uh
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was pearl like a bittering addition uh it was both um it was in at 60 minutes and in it five minutes [Music] 60 minutes and five minutes and then a little bit of citra as well at the end yeah yeah and then sort of decent steep for
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about 20 minutes afterwards yep okay um what sort of yeast did you use i was w3470 um and the vines to farm strain and yeah
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um and so how what was sort of the temperature regime well my fridge seems to be struggling with the temperature up here as it turns out um so i was i was shooting to ferment at 16 but i don't think it got below 18.
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okay so a little bit hot did the beer come does the beer have any like banana rest or anything like that no no no sort of weird esters or anything like that 16's apparently the right temperature for 34.70 yeah that's trying to go for that so yeah so that's the because when we
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because we did that thing a few weeks ago at the feminist academy there and they were saying yeah 16 that ferments nice and clean yeah um and so tell me um about the water treatment and i'll just sort of prefix for anyone who's watching this is
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that ryan's putting together these beers as pilot brews for a brewery that he is working on opening soon so he's in that sort of recipe development mode and we're just talking through that process so uh so yeah so what sort of water chemistry or what salts did you throw
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out this beer so we had um had a fair bit of lactic just to bring the ph down um and then it was um you know so so this is for a 40 liter batch
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yeah um was three grams of epsom salt two grams of chloride and one gram of sulfate like gypsum calcium sulfur yeah yeah how did you come to that conclusion for using those thoughts
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uh honestly uh beer smith um i went for a balanced lager profile and i put in the um the water report that i got from the from the local um water people yep
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which i have no idea if it's accurate or not but yeah um it's it's worked on most of the other beers i've done so yeah okay so um judging by sort of
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everything that you've described there um there's there's there's a few things that that we should probably address um have you got like capacity to go and brew a couple of batches of lager to
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have a go at some things yeah i do i currently only have one one fermentation fridge so it's um because so basically i need it so yeah yeah um and it currently has a cake in there
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at the moment so yeah well that'll be done in two days so that should be fine but that should be done in a day or two yeah yeah okay so when when you're making lager there's um a few things that you sort of need to
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think about okay so when i think about a lager and i know that we sort of talked offline about this you were saying i don't have access to the big industrial processes that sort of thing and i also say too well it's not really about that i mean the the lager brewers
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the mega the multinationals and stuff of that have turned it into that process but um there's no reason that a craft brewer can't make a good kraken decent lager there's a few little tips that i sort of um follow and what i'll do in this
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session is i'm going to give you a um a munich hellas recipe right yep it's just a straight up municipalis just and just go and brew it okay and and and that and what that will do
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is it's basically a tool for you to go and brew it get a better understanding of the lager style and then you can go and make your changes that you want to make and that sort of thing is that something you'd be willing to have a crack at um
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yeah i guess i mean i've i've actually taken a bloody bronze at the aibas for a helles that i yeah right um last year uh last year year before um it's it's literally this specific recipe that's just gone completely sideways and i'm on the
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third brew of it now and it's yeah but i mean that's not working yeah but that's all been brewed in melbourne um which has absolutely beautiful water okay um so um so you're on the gold coast so
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my next point was that water is probably one of the big things that's going to play heavily on um on that style of beer and so um uh and so i'm aware of some of the water
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chemistry around there because i've got a couple of clients down um on the gold coast and they've had their water run through the lab so um so basically on the gold coast you've got a really big decent desalination plant uh down at um southern end the gold coast i think it's
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called gutter or tugan or something like that near the airport and um and so the water from that so they have this thing in southeast queensland where they have this thing called the water grid and so they can take water from the d-cell they can take water from all the different dams around
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around southeast queensland and they can mix it and match it and blend it so right from all the way down on the border uh all the way up to noosa is all on the water grid and so it changes quite a lot
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and so that's a pretty big sort of thing right but chances are you're going to get the water that's put into the system closest to where you are okay makes sense and so so the first thing that i say with regards to water chemistry
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is um uh is firstly um the water reports that you get from the council and or the your local water authority and that sort of thing they really they they're only a rough guy and they're
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really just there just so for them to say hey um we're meeting the australian water standard um here's the rough idea of what's going in there and yeah and that sort of thing and it kind of doesn't
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really tell you what's actually going into your brewery um and so so what it doesn't take into account is your street your pipes um and um uh everything from where the water goes
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into the grid that we've got and most cities have something pretty similar to it you know if you're in europe they recycle a lot of water um and uh to how it winds up to you so i suggest that to clients that they go and get their water tested from from a
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sample from within their building because it actually takes into account the pipes in the street going up there case in point you've got a client who was having some um metallic issues in their beer and uh after some poking and prodding from
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the local water authority uh my client found out there was 120 year old cast iron water main going up his street that little flex little flecks of of rust were coming off the inside of the pipe and winding up at random points
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yeah in his brewery and therefore in his beer and so he's taking measures now to to fix those things but it's just goes to show um you don't because you can't see the from from where and
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to where you know you can't eyeball it you don't know and so the only way that you can actually eyeball it is to go and get your water analyzed yeah um the the second thing is um is i ignore
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um and this is and i'll i'll mention some things that are my sort of personal preference i ignore um water profiles from certain cities and i also ignore uh the um water profiles that beer smith uses now
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i use beer smith to write recipes and stuff like that and i use another system called beer 30 to actually track do batch logging and all that sort of thing yeah but when i'm actually writing beer recipes and doing water i don't use beer smith and i don't and i use brewing
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water as well i'll i'll share my screen with you in a second we'll run through um your your beer recipe and um and what i do um is brewing water is a great tool
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because it's put together by a guy called martin brunegaard and what he does is he's just a water guy i'd love to meet him but um but he just knows when it comes to water he just knows his [ __ ] and so this is no disrespect to beersmith or
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anything like that i love beersmith um but but i find that i get better outcomes by using brewing water for water chemistry and so whether you're using broom water or using beer smith or something like that they always have their list of
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waters they have pills and water and dublin water and um you know burning on trent water and all that sort of stuff and all those things as a modern craft brewer i generally ignore do you know why i ignore them it's because those brewers from those historical towns [ __ ] hated their
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water yeah and so what they did was they made beers to suit the water whereas nowadays with modern technology we can actually understand what's in the water we can manipulate it and be precise with our manipulations and actually make the water the way that
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we want to make it and make any style of beer that we want yeah that makes sense so that's the beauty of it now on the flip side not everyone's got a bloody ro plant in there uh in their brewery not every brewer can afford that sort of thing and for the most part you know in
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we're not we're not a bloody third world country so um you know you can your water is going to be generally okay yeah so um uh so the best way to
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uh to sort of approach that is um make the rather than sort of focusing on targeting a certain um like uh like a town that you want to replicate
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that water rather what i use is is john palmer's book so oh [ __ ] oh yeah there so i use john palmer's book and this is excellent okay and i use this as my guide
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to for base uh water how i manipulate the water so i think it's page 150 156 through 159 yep and so in that book have you got
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that book that's pretty good no i don't sadly okay so it's one of the elements series and so yeah in there is a table um on uh basically about um beer color which is a big influencer on
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autochemistry and also suggestions around the levels of calcium sulfate and chloride because when it comes to manipulating your water chemistry for a certain style of beer
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what's not important is those historical old town things yeah um what is important is the uh alkalinity of your water not the ph the alkalinity so the difference between ph and alkalinity is imagine that's an
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old-school radiodial right and ph is the station that you're trying to tune into and alkalinity is how far or how hard you have to turn the dial to get that station yeah okay so that's that's different that's how i
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kind of visualize it works for me it might not work for you but yeah yeah that makes sense um and so um and so with the uh with a lager right if i'm thinking about a lager
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what i would what i want and what this book actually advise you to do is you need around 50 ppm of calcium and that's for yeast flocculation sometimes you can get away with less sometimes you might need a bit more depending upon the east strain that sort
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of thing but let's just call it 50 and then yep you can tweak it from there and then you want to sulfate so the other thing is so so the other thing is your sulfate and chloride ratio yes now there's two things in brewing water chemistry
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which add up to beer flavor it's only two numbers and number one is beer ph yeah and number two is your sulfate chloride ratio yeah so beer beer ph not your work ph not your water ph yeah as in the finished
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product the ph of your beer is the is the number that represents the flavor of your beer the reason why that's important is this right things taste better when their ph is right where it needs to be
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yeah so um i like spaghetti bolognese do you like spaghetti bolognese yes love it right here do you know how to make it yep what's in it tomato basil a bunch of herbs
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um a bit of meat usually salt pepper yeah that's it tomato meat salt peppers some herbs maybe some onions something like that it's really simple right yeah so when you go to the
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um supermarket right you go buy that tinned it's big e bolognese sauce you ever had that yeah it's super acidic yeah right and there's not really much going on there you know no um
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but you as you said you make spaghetti bolognese at home i make spaghetti bolognese at home i think i'm pretty [ __ ] good at it too yeah and my spaghetti bolognese is pretty darn good right yeah but have you ever been to a really good expensive italian restaurant have their spaghetti bolognese yup
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and it's just ice you can do the old chef's kiss yeah it's just yeah just that extra little bit so why is it that the tin for spaghetti bolognese sauce the one that you make at home and the one that that chef's hat
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chef makes they're all made from the same ingredients yeah why does why does the why does the chef's spaghetti bolognese taste better than the tin stuff when it's the same raw materials more or less yeah i mean some of it's got to do with the
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quality of the raw materials that go in it no doubt but you know but you know you you had a good observation there the stuff that's in the um in the tin is usually super acidic and it's just all about the acid it's just not much yeah yeah and you can't can't
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taste the beef can't taste the herbs yeah it's just there just to make it shelf stable yeah right and so that comes back to why ph is so important is that depending upon the style of beer that you're making is dependent upon where
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the beer ph you want to land at and i'll run through in a second with you how that works so that's one aspect of it the second aspect of it is the sulfate to chloride ratio so when you have a beer that has more sulfate in it it tends to taste it accentuates hot bitterness yep hot
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flavor whereas whereas you have when you have chlorides then that can accentuate sweetness some say malt i don't like to say accentuates malt but rather accentuates sweetness yeah um and and so because a lot of things like
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you see a lot of things with homebrew as i go on multi water profile versus hoppy water profile it's not cut and dry like that yeah it's just nuances and that sort of thing in it and so that's so they're the two flavored numbers and that when you're doing water chemistry
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they're the ones that you gotta aim for yeah right okay so when so when you're making a lager all i'm thinking about is where the ph of the beer needs to land and
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and and what the sulfate chloride ratio is and also calcium so that i get some yeast flocculation so yeah 50 ppm of calcium for yeast population uh want a beer ph of around for a lager of around
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4.1 4.2 somewhere around there and then a sulfate to chloride ratio of 0.8 which means that there's a slightly more chloride than there is sulfate to accentuate sweetness when we're adding salts into into a beer
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we only want to add the absolute minimum to get the job done yeah okay and that's especially so when we're making a lager yeah all right so um so
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let's apply that in reality all right so what i'll do is i'm going to share my screen with you just want to get a water profile that's going to closely match yours because if we do that then
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we'll have a something that you can actually go and brew and be close enough if you know what i mean it's going to be better than the council test yeah and all right just so you'll
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so you know what i've got going on here um the beer smith profile i was going with was just um yellow balance yellow balance yeah i know the one yeah does it actually say what um oh here we go i've got one that's not far away from you
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nice okay all right so what i'll do is i'll just share my screen with you again so let's take a look at this uh this water report here yeah so you can see that
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on the screen there yep okay so this is basically a water report here and i should be able to annotate it here which is great uh so the numbers that i'm looking at is when i look at a water report
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um i'm looking at the total hardness which is basically they've got hardness this one here yeah um i'm looking at the
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res the there's total alkalinity but what i'm actually interested in is residual alkalinity yes that's like that's that's basically so alkalinity is that how it resists change to ph when you're brewing and stuff like that yep um and i'm also looking at the uh
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sulfate and the chloride okay yeah okay um and so if you have a look at this one here 14 ppm of chloride 7.7 of sulfate there really isn't a lot but there's actually quite a lot of alkalinity
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yeah it's not it's not the biggest i've seen but it's but it's quite a bit so we've got 33 residual alkalinity yeah um so um so what what residual alkalinity is um it's a brewing specific number and it's basically total alkaline and total
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alkalinity less hardness and hardness calcium and magnesium and that's how that that's that's that's the number that they come up with there and so um so what we can do is we can actually what i'll do is we can i'll pull up
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i'll pull up um brown water and i'll just pop that in so basically so for calcium we've got 18 so i'm just punching 18
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magnesium is 2.3 sodium so we're basically doing all the ions and cations and anions yep sodium 16
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ppm bicarbonate 50 let's call it 59 carbonate now you're not going to have carbonate in your water um so that's a really interesting one so you ever brewed a dark beer um many yes yeah okay so what do you do
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to adjust the ph in your dark be i usually just use a shitload of roasted mold yeah yeah but what about water chemistry oh water chemistry depends what i'm doing but um again i tend to go for a fairly chloride heavy
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um do you ever use chalk um sometimes i haven't brewed a dark beer since i've moved up here um but the the water where i was in ballarat um didn't need it it you know we were
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getting um scale build up on the inside of the tanks just from the standard water so yeah needed to so lots of people like to use chalk chalk being calcium carbonate yeah and so and so carbonates don't don't dissolve in things less than a ph of 8.3
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yeah okay what's your mash ph it's in the fives 5.4 5.3 so what's the point of putting something in to your mash that doesn't dissolve yeah so it's a buffer right so it prevents ph change but it doesn't raise ph
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yeah okay that's another interesting tidbit for you right so so basically i've punched in all those water water report from your area there i'm going to send this to you later mate so cheers uh so you can so you can get all that so what are the first thing i look at in broome water is this number here so basically that's a that's a like a
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cation anion difference so anything below 0.5 anything below one and you're pretty much okay but we've got 0.26 here which means we're pretty good i haven't bumped in potassium and nitrates and fluorides but it's good enough for now right okay so
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the next thing that we go and punch in is the grain bill yep give it a name so if you can can are you able to give me like the quantity in kilos of those
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different malts and the colors uh yep um pull it back up so it's gladfield lager yep gladfield logo here and it was glad fields uh gladiator yep
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and uh barrett burst and light munich munich okay so they're all base malts as far as water is concerned yep you can put in wheat notes and crystal molts and even even though gladiator
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gladiator is kind of like a crystal mod it's too pale to be considered a crystal malt so yeah yeah they have roast molten acid we're not using any of those they're all basically uh base molds yeah anything munich is baseball so
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uh what do you got kilo wise uh lager six kilos six yeah the gladiator 0.8 kilos i think yeah and the munich 0.8 kilos
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hey yeah and what are the color of those in ebc the color for the lager is 2.8 i call it three close enough yep um the gladiator i've got 10
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sounds about right and then it's probably gonna be about 17.7 18. yeah beautiful okay so the reason why we enter the colors and why they make a difference is um and so this kind of leads to dark beers versus pale beers right yeah
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roasted malts things that have gone through the maillard reaction yep are more acidic yeah okay and will lower the ph of your mash and your word and that sort of thing right so here's the really weird thing right pale and pale beers will naturally mash
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and create work which is a high ph yeah and beers with acid molten roast malt will naturally are naturally acidic and will actually lower your ph but when it comes to actually making those beers taste good you've got to flip it around the other way so pale
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beers tastes better with a lower ph a lower beer ph remember i was saying that beer ph is like is a flavor number and dark beers tastes better with a higher ph right
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so that so so with dark beers in particular and i'm just going to shout out to falcon sligo extra stout that i'm drinking at the moment which is tasting [ __ ] delicious um is that so you put a lot of
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roast malt into a mash it's going to acidify that mash but it's not going to taste very good so there's actually so to give you their idea so there's actually a process in chocolate making it's called dutching and so what dutching is is that when they're actually roasting the cocoa beans
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they actually do so in the presence of a base a caustic like sodium hydroxide they raise the ph while they're roasting the the coca beans and that and rather than them rather than the cocoa beans tasting
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burnt and accurate and astringent they taste rich and full and chocolatey yeah right that's cool it's the same for beer gotcha so next time you're making a uh a dark beer um give us a shout we'll do a water chemistry on a dark beer because it's
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very interesting what we're about to do okay so the next thing that i need to know is uh water volumes so what's your mash water volume and your sparge water volume and how much work are we making
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uh so the mash water was 36 liters and sparge was 30 because that's as big as my own is so uh 36 mash liquor
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yep sparge is 30. was there any did you dilute your work down at all or anything no and that makes a 40 liter patch yeah ah 40 liters in keg it makes about 45 in the fermenter 45 okay
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right so that's the next next important thing so first up putting your base water report secondly um stick in your grain bill with the colors that you get from the certificate of analysis um which your multiplier will give to you if your multiplier doesn't send you a certificate of analysis with every
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shipment find a new multiplier and then the third thing that you do is you stick in the um the volumes you need to be quite accurate with these because we're actually going to be treating all of the water it's a really common mistake that i see with brewers they treat the mash liquor
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yeah but there's more water that goes into the brewing process right such as your sparge liquor work dilution if you're doing like gravity brewing and stuff like that right and so um so yeah that's that's super important get an understanding and try and get
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that close because we're going to adjust it down here and we're going to do it in a grams per liter right yeah and so we need to be pretty right there if you know what i'm yeah right so lots going on in this screen but what i'm looking at right here i'm going to be looking at these things so
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firstly i'm going to be looking at this number here all right the sulfate to chloride ratio and i'm going to be looking at this one here and then i'm going to be looking at this line along the bottom here which is our finished water profile
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gotcha okay what i'm not going to be looking at is this up the top in fact pretty much all of this here i'm just going to [ __ ] ignore yeah all right so you see here we've got our desired water profile new england ipa i'm not even going to touch it yeah just going
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to bloody ignore it good because we already know what we're aiming for what we want um is we want a calcium of 50
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right we want a sulfate to chloride ratio of point let's call it 0.8 and i want a ph of 5.2 for our mash yeah okay simple as that makes sense
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they're the only three things that i'm going to be looking at right so let's uh let's add in let's let's get our calcium up to 50 to start with so five just so we noticed in that base water profile we've already got 18 so we don't actually need to add too much salt because our
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from our lab analysis we know that we've already got 18. and we already know that our sulfate chloride ratio is 0.6 that's also pretty close ph's way out i'll come back to that let's add in a little bit of um
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let's add in a little bit of calcium sulfate if i go point one right see as it's come up to see how the calcium has now come up to 41 yeah but if you have here so that's gypsum that i added in so in your in your mash or in your match it's going to
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be 3.6 grams and 3 grams in the sparge but if you have a look at this number here the spot software the chloride ratio has gone to 4.5 yeah that beer is going to taste not so great because it's going to be all about the sulfate and it's probably not going
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to taste taste that good i'm actually going to take your salts if you've got uh records of that we're going to punch this into yours and we're going to see what it actually is yeah yeah sure um so that's actually not the right way to go right so adding a gypsum in this beer isn't the right way to go
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yeah so let's take that out let's add in some calcium chloride instead one right yeah so what what's happened here is that's given us about the right amount of calcium but it's dropped our sulfate to chloride ratio down to 0.1 so that's
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kind of not quite where we want to go either yeah so what we probably need here is a little bit of both to bring them up together so if i change this to 0.05 and i change that to 0.05 we've got 48 ppm yeah of calcium and [ __ ] look at that
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bloody 0.8 sulfate to chloride ratio right where we wanted to be i did not plan that i did not plan that so so that was just a bloody guess because normally what i do is i'm just adjusting those sorts of things but if you have a look here right
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so if i went to 0.06 for instance see how the sulfate and chloride ratio has now come up to 0.9 yeah right so so so what we're doing now is we're just basically adjusting the flavor number yeah the calcium changes a bit but it's negligible yeah 0.5 all right
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so pointer that's good all right we've got 48 0.8 right that's great so that means that when next time you brew this beer you want to put 1.8 grams of gypsum into the mash and one and a half grams of
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gypsum into the boil okay the reason why you put salts into the boil is you need to treat your sparge water and your dilution liquor yeah so that definitely needs to go into um uh into the water all of the water don't
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just treat your mash water treat all your bloody water right yeah and obviously because we've got the same rate of 0.05 grams per liter the same amount of calcium chloride also goes into this beer yep right what we haven't solved is the ph the
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mash ph as you can see it's estimate is still rather high where do we want it to be it was like 5.2 yeah ph to be okay so how do you reckon we lower the ph without changing any of these minerals
38:02
along this line here well i mean i'd just use lactic or phosphoric acid exactly some brewers some brewers choose to use um a scituated mulch
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are you because that's the reinhardt's gabot way and i have i have a lot of respect for the right heights compote but what but the thing is is that when you add a situated malt it's very difficult to control the amount of lactic acid that goes into the mesh yeah because you just don't know i mean this
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thing will estimate it for you but if you want precise control you've got to use lactic acid or phosphoric acid yeah different acids taste different lactic acid if you go do it do this at home go get a glass of water or maybe some cordial or something like that and and
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dose up some of it with um lactic acid and dose up some water with phosphoric acid and go dose up some water with vinegar which is acetic acid and all those acids taste tastes different and that actually makes your beer taste different really big influence yeah
39:07
so all i need to do now is i need to add lactic acid i would suggest for you just use lactic acid yeah in this beard um so lactic acid just to drop the ph to 5.2 so if i go 0.1 mils per liter let's drop it down to 5.48 let's go 0.2
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5.18 close enough nice right so that means that you've got to add 7.2 mils of lactic acid into your mesh now what i say is what i say to brewers
39:41
is the first time you go and brew this definitely add those salts in right to the mash and to the kettle right but the first time you brew uh this beer with the acid probably add about three quarters of that acid because this is like beersmith this doesn't reflect reality it's only
39:57
theoretical and the only way you can get this right is to go and do it yourself and the and and the ph is the thing that you've got control over so put those salts in and put in three quarters of that lactic acid and then mix it up and check the ph and if the ph
40:14
isn't where you want it to be if it's still too high add a little bit more once the acid goes in obviously you can't take it out so um you're basically um you're stuck with it so um so um that's that's kind of
40:30
important there that you don't put too much acid in yeah and so the first time you brew this if you're plus or minus a ph of 0.1 good enough for the first time dial it in the next time you make the view okay so if you have a look here right so this
40:47
is this this column here is your mineral additions for the mash and this is for your sparge liquor and you'll see here and what a lot of people forget is they forget about the putting acid into their sparge yeah of course in your um so this
41:03
basically says 1.8 mils of lactic acid in your sparge but i don't do that right yeah so i'll swing back around about the effect of ph in different parts of the brewing process in a second but when you're making a lager all right
41:19
what you want to do is uh you want to add your salts in at the start of the boil yeah so you kettle your kettle salts or your sponge salts chuck them in the kettle at the start of the boil and you wanna and and ten minutes before the
41:35
end you wanna take a ph reading of your work yeah and then um and then what you wanna do is you wanna actually acidify your work down to somewhere between 4.9 and 5.
41:51
lots of brewers don't do this right you can acidify your sparge water that's totally cool but this is a really easy way to do it now the reason why we do that with 10 minutes to go is we actually want the work to have a higher ph
42:06
throughout the boil because having a higher ph deals with dms yeah okay if you if your work ph is above 5.4 you're not going to have a dms issue i don't know what gladfield mold is like i i admit that i haven't used it as much
42:23
as i would like to but i know i like to use weiman premium pilsner malt which is their extra pale malt and it's got a lot of dms precursor in it and you need to make sure that during the boil that your work ph in the in the boil is up around the 5.4 mark because that actually deals
42:40
it stops dms dead in its tracks yeah in addition to a long boil as well yeah okay so those two things together deal with dns last 10 minutes of the boil all your dms is going to be gone right so you can actually make that ph adjustment you've
42:55
got 10 minutes to do that right so what you want to do is you want to put lactic acid into the kettle recheck the ph and get the ph somewhere between 4.9 and 5. yeah okay that's and so what's going to happen there is that's going to be that's you
43:11
that's your flavor addition that's going to bring the beer ph down to make it land right where it's going to taste [ __ ] amazing yeah okay so if you think about it this way it goes like this so if i go
43:28
i'm just going to bring up a little bit of a whiteboardy sort of thing here so can you see like a whiteboard looking thing there uh yes yes okay good okay right so what
43:44
i'm going to do is i'm going to draw a chart so i've got a chart right yeah and so on this side of the x axis is going to be the uh
43:59
stage of production right and on this side it's going to be ph okay so when you start brewing right
44:14
the first part right of your i'm going to change that color uh is i'll just change it to red so the first part is your water yeah right and your water according to that water
44:30
report that we had i think it said that it was the water ph was 7.7 yeah here's 7.7 look at my childish writing when we when we mix that with grist where does our ph usually wind up
44:48
high fives usually i reckon high fives exactly so we're going to drop down and we've got mash mash five-ish this is great all right so we've got
45:03
five-ish all right yeah and so what are we doing at the last 10 minutes of the boil we're doing a ph adjustment yes to bring it down to 4.9 so we're going to do a little bit of a ph adjustment we're going to do here and this is going to be going to go back to text because it's
45:18
going to be 4.5 oh right so that's our word right let's get back to work [Music]
45:34
i should get a pen look at that so what happens during fermentation generally drops down a bit more usually ends up around 4.2 ish for most beers so the yeast actually excrete an acid just as part of
45:51
um fermentation it's like citric acid and all sorts of different acids and that sort of thing right so your ph drops again right to here so i'm going to write a b that's beer
46:06
right and so what that is is where our product winds up right yeah right here at uh you know let's call it four point i'm going to call it 4.1 ish
46:23
okay so this number here is our target and we want to if we want to hit that number as our you need to have a plan for your target ph for your beer this is the flavor number
46:39
right yep and so i'm just gonna write flavor right here and so that's our flavor number right
46:55
if we're aiming for this number here along here then we need to reverse engineer it back up to the start of fermentation here so if you brew this beer and the yeast make it land in a little bit too high
47:10
well that means that you need to bring the work ph down a little bit just to make it just to make it land right on your target like that makes sense makes sense yeah and so the beauty of it is you work right
47:27
yeah your work at 10 minutes to go in the kettle you have absolute control over the ph of the yeah of course all right so that's the point of 10 minutes where you do that acidity adjustment of your work to make sure
47:42
that the yeast do the rest of the job and carry the beer all the way down to your target flavor number yeah nice pretty cool hey it is pretty cool so that's kind of how it works right so
47:58
that's pretty much you your brew day and how you actually get your beer to hit that target ph and and so if making a lager i would want that beer to drop it around 4.1 4.2 yeah up to you it's a flavor number and
48:15
i'm not here to tell you how to make your flavors in your beer that's entirely up to you but there's a range there if i was making a beer that was a slightly darker maybe an amber or something like that my target would be around the sort of
48:31
4.3 ish 4.4 ish mark and if i'm making dark beer what i'd want is for my beer to land at around 4.5 yeah okay 4.6 right because that higher
48:47
ph makes those uh roasty notes um come across more rich and rounded and chocolatey yeah except if you're making a dry irish stout in which case you do want to acidify it because they're dry and that's yeah yeah that's a whole different thing but for
49:03
the sake of a lager that's how it works yeah cool all right so so in your so in your case right really really simple um is basically
49:18
1.8 grams of gypsum in the mash 1.5 in the boil 1.8 grams of calcium chloride in the mash 1.5 in the boil somewhere around 7.2 milliliters to get you to a mass ph of 5.1
49:34
then ignore this number here the 1.79 and just add in 10 minutes to go whatever asset it takes to get it to somewhere around 4.95 the next thing i would say to you is if you can i i've i've had
49:49
i i'm i've never gotten 3470 to work well for me i comes across to history for me yeah okay i've had better success with s189 the swiss lager yeast yeah that's just my personal opinion you probably
50:05
if you've had good experience good good outcomes with 3470 use it but what i usually what i usually do is uh s189 picture that say 11 or 12 degrees hold it at 11 or 12 degrees till it gets to 6 plato that's 10 25
50:21
then set the tank to 18 and let it rip yep it'll never get to 18 but that just just goes up just to hit dice yeah yes that sort of thing um and i find s189 a lot cleaner um and provided you've got good yeast
50:36
health and as we saw at the fermenters of cabin academy the other week yeah you need to oxygenate your bloody work yeah dry and you can put dry yeast straight in them yeah which is fantastic it turns out i've been doing it right for years mind-blowing mind-blowing thank you
50:52
fermenters for that information and yeah and so and you wind up with a beer that should ferment out in about 10 days yeah if yeast health is good that s189 will actually flock out really well and you can have a lager in three weeks
51:07
yeah nice same as what you would have for uh some sort of american pale ale you know with usfi or attention yeah some of those american algae that sort of thing so so you don't need to like you can and yeah you get some nice
51:23
flavor outcomes you know when you're lager you you beer for weeks and weeks and weeks and that sort of thing and i totally agree with that but when you balance up the commercial realities of running a brewery commercial brewery yeah the production schedule and the sales team are usually going to be
51:40
cracking the whip going yeah [ __ ] you need to pull your finger out ryan but again it tastes so good we're selling out of it please make yeah so that's pretty much it does that make sense yes it does
51:56
yeah yeah cheers it's it's just it's so so basically what it is when you're making lager is you just got to be attentive to your um your raw materials good malt makes good lager so yeah
52:13
basically that same process if you did 100 wine and pilsner or wine and premium pills the malt yep um and then you did a bittering edition 15 to 20 ibus of uh magnum or hercules which is the new
52:29
version of magnum germany um 15 20 ibus somewhere around there and do that same work ph and water chemistry and all that sort of stuff which is not going to be different at all um and same yeast and all that sort of stuff you want that's
52:46
totally decent beer it's super simple in terms of its recipe formulation yeah nice um and um and so yeah that's that's pretty will it but the good thing is now you've got the kind of the tools now that you can go and
53:02
make that beer you can make your recipe formulation changes you want to throw the citra in the whirlpool or late and that sort of thing don't yeah see what happens and i think you'll have a wildly different beer and i will come down and try it [Laughter]
53:19
yeah did you have any questions there about that um no not really oh well actually one thing about the um the salt additions um can you just chuck all of the salt in
53:34
the mash uh yes you can yeah so let me let me show you so broom water will actually take that into account yeah so there's a little so brewing water right so um there's a free version
53:49
um but i would recommend going and flicking martin brunegaard um 10 bucks us for the paid version the reason why is it has this little tab down the bottom called the data manager so we've just done this beer and i just go save and it's just saved it yeah and
54:07
um if i ever want to reload it then i can go and select it from the drop down here and go and reload it and that's oh that's nice yeah right so so you don't need so the reason why i use um the paid version is you don't need a different spreadsheet
54:22
file for every single version of the thing you do it's all in the one place yeah sweet it's very good and 10 bucks mate yeah kid amongst it how could you not yeah so there's a setting here that says add
54:39
sparging water mineral additions to the mesh now what's going to happen when we select this it goes yes or no calcium gypsum and calcium chloride will lower the ph of
54:54
the um yeah the mash okay yeah um so by adding all of the minerals into the mash then it's going to affect it's going to lower this ph so if i go do that now all right watch the
55:09
estimated match ph number all right see how it's dropped to 5.09 yep okay so what would you do there in that situation uh take out some of the lactic correct exactly
55:24
so basically what you would do is i'll go 5.18 oops six there we go yeah so take out some of the lactic acid and it's not much and you can add all of
55:41
the minerals into the mash and be done with it yeah nice either way you want to play it and the beauty of it is right so if i go here
55:57
right so you can actually suck and so when you this is where you change the name of it so i can hit save and so you see you see it's saved a version with all the results in mesh yeah so you can actually keep keep both try both and whatever works for you uh you've got a record of it yeah cool so
56:15
yes you can totally do that yes wait because that's what i've been doing for years so yeah that's okay um it's it's up to you i i prefer to do some of the salts in the um in the mash and then throw salts into
56:30
the kettle during the boil yep um that is entirely up to you yeah cool stuff yeah go brew this after your quacks done tomorrow yeah
56:45
i pitched i pitched the yeast on on um saturday so it's it's i'm pretty sure it's done yeah yeah that's good and so just basically try that and see where it lands there won't be a lot of hops in this beer even though
57:00
you've got that late edition pearl and citra in there there wouldn't be much hops in that beer at all so no it's not a lot yeah aiming for sort of 16 to 20 sort of ibus or something like that then yeah where are we
57:17
total hops it's like 65 grams in total yeah yeah um i love new zealand pills even in new zealand pills now yeah yeah i've i mean i think i've only had
57:32
the the max one but which is nice it's good i just love new zealand pills now you know that's been a lot of late new zealand hops and they dry hot them yeah as well and um you know they taste the way they taste again because they've got the ph
57:49
and you know the acidity adjustments right yeah and just brings out those beautiful new zealand diesel red bird rubber car tire and gooseberry [ __ ] notes if you don't know nelson saw them uh it's one of my favorite styles of here yeah
58:04
guys so yeah so there you go nice one thanks heaps man that was a lot of fun did you enjoy that yeah yeah she want to rise really good awesome uh there's lots there no matter what lager style you're making those same tips will
58:22
just bloody work yeah for the thing because what i think you've probably been sounds like you've been missing is i i definitely think water sound recipe sounds alright but yeah there's nothing wrong with it it's just it's just a beer beer you know and yeah
58:38
like that's the thing it's you know it's a it's a lager that's got to be drinkable by tourists in surfers paradise so i'm not trying to go hard you know it's it sounds like as well that you've got like with 10 gladiator in there are you trying to put some body into it or what are you trying to uh yeah bit of body
58:54
and head retention okay yes yeah because that was the the big thing like the a couple of the previous batches that had none of that because i was using some of their malted maize as well which i've got rid of completely because i don't like the taste of it
59:10
um but yeah no it was just like it'd be this lovely sparkly fizzy beer but no head at all so do you want to you want a hot tip on how you can just 100 fix your head retention 90 of the time it's glassware and bar
59:27
staff and not having clean glasses yeah uh but from a brewer's perspective um if you take four ibus out of that recipe and then put four ibus in as tetrahop in the bright tank or right before you kick it yeah okay
59:43
job done nice yeah i mean jesus it's only bloody 15 ibu anyways exactly yeah so tetrahoppers just is [ __ ] amazing for head retention yeah okay yeah actually somewhere else as well yeah i only need
59:58
four ibus so i just did a i just did a corner keg and um and and of a pale ale and i chucked four ibus of tetrahoppy and corny cake was uh 0.9 milliliters
00:13
yeah yeah and that just [ __ ] fixed it yeah nice it was amazing yeah actually maybe i should do that to the other keg of this guy but you can do an experiment with her you know tetrahedron is cheap just gotta get it from
00:35
yeah that's it i got a sample of bloody um a one liter sample of uh fine and i'm like well that's about 400 batches worth yeah exactly so now there's some good stuff there so yeah
00:50
nice i'll make some lager i'd love to come and try it easy cheers and i um i hope that helped mate and then that was just a lot of fun and when everybody's going to be the reason why we did this today is i just wanted to do because lots of people are going to be stuck in isolation
01:08
over the next few days and i think that it's and let's just spend this time and connect with each other and make some more awesome beer yeah for sure actually when we when we get back out and when the punters get back out again
01:24
um you know when this is all over [Music] and um we're all back making beer let's make our beer even [ __ ] better that's what i look forward to well that's it like why not make better beer yeah exactly all right let me know how you go mate
01:40
reach out when um when that beer is done yeah it shall do man thanks and let me know if there's a there's a difference there and if it's all also if it's [ __ ] yeah yeah oh you'll know if you've got [ __ ] i'll [ __ ] mail you one
01:57
thanks mate no worries all right you have a good one and i'll talk to you soon yeah you too man thanks hypes cheers